Transcript of an interview on Woman’s Hour in February 2020 with Ashley Pussett, founder of Claw-Back, the sanctuary and rehab programme for Fallen Women.
Jane: It’s a pleasure and an honour to have with us this morning the women’s champion Ashley Pussett, who last week received an honorary Doctorate from the University of Luton in recognition of her work rescuing and rehabilitating women of all ages and from all backgrounds whose lives have gone into freefall. Welcome, Ashley!
Ashley: Thank you, Jane. It’s an honour to be here.
Jane: Ashley, the recent film of your life has gone viral on YouTube; how do you cope with all the attention?
Ashley: Oh it’s wonderful! Such great publicity for my rehab unit! Women’s lives are going to be transformed.
Jane: Like yours?
Ashley: Like mine, Jane.
Jane: Ashley, tell us your story, for those listeners who may not yet have seen the video or read your book ‘Subordinate Claws.’ Interesting title, by the way.
Ashley: Thank you! I thought so too. Well ... as everybody knows, I was born into a hard-working, entrepreneurial family, got my A grades, took my Gap Year touring the Middle East and got some great work experience in Dubai before going to Uni in the early noughties....
Jane: Dubai! How wonderful! Rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous?
Ashley: Oh yes. That’s where I really learned my values. So when I got back I took degree courses in Business Management, Finance, Economics and Marketing.
Jane: That sounds expensive.
Ashley: Money wasn’t a problem. My parents coughed up for everything, even though it meant sacrifices. They have always been so supportive. It meant that not only could I get the qualis I needed but never had to compromise my standards.
Jane: You always dress beautifully.
Ashley: I know. Many of my clothes are gifts from the top designers. It’s great PR for them.
Jane: So you got to Uni, graduated ... then what happened?
Ashley: It was hard, hard work; but at Uni I learned how to relax. I was there with women from every corner of Europe, from Asia, the US, all over the globe, all of us working our butts off to make sure we got everywhere - and everything - we wanted. It wasn’t going to be a man’s world any more! No way! We could down a pint like the best of them. We could party all night, get as high as kites, and still be completely focussed the next day. Emotional ties, as you can imagine, were a big no-no! In Dubai I had several very influential lovers - still useful contacts I may add - but at Uni I found I could have anyone I wanted, male or female, without strings. We are all entitled to pleasure, Jane. Women of today deserve to have their needs met and their status respected. As a high-profile and hard-working broadcaster I’m sure you agree.
Jane: How did you manage so many relationships? Were there no jealousies?
Ashley: Oh - maybe. Not my responsibility. People get over them. Well - I organised my week. Monday I’d see Jake, Tuesday Mandy, Wednesday John, maybe, Thursday Sebastian, Friday Chris, Saturday the twins, and Sunday I might have a rest or go round to another of the girls for a group session.
Jane: What happened when you moved into Banking?
Ashley: Of course I had to drop all my Uni people; you do, when you move on. Like any woman I needed to make all the new and useful contacts I could in the sector. I needed more than ever to keep that essential work-life balance. And of course it meant I was promoted very quickly. I was also extremely good at my job. Daytime was the Boardroom, Donna Karan suits, endless negotiations, huge financial dealings, and trouble-shooting occasional crises; evenings doing the rounds of the very best London Clubs before relaxing with a hot, fit celeb. A few hours sleep and I was ready to glam up for another working day.
Jane: This is the vision you have for all women.
Ashley: That is the life every woman should aspire to - and attain.
Jane: But in 2008 ... ?
Ashley: In 2008 we had the Crash. Far too many people were unjustly blamed for the global banking crisis. And fingers pointed at me! I couldn’t believe it. So many people deserted me. I felt so alone.
Jane: How did you cope?
Ashley: Badly. I made the worst mistake of my entire life. As you know, I was asked to leave both the Boardroom and the Bank. There was just one man who stood by me, a chap from Customer Services called Dennis. He caught me at a very weak moment, offered me a handkerchief, and took me for egg and chips at a greasy spoon a few streets from Head Office.
Jane: That was very kind.
Ashley: I think he’d always fancied me. From afar. Well - he took me home to his semi in Dagenham and made me cocoa ... cocoa!!! ... and lent me pyjamas and tucked me up in his spare room ... and never laid a finger on me.
Jane: A real gentleman!
Ashley: I guess. Anyhow, I had to go back to my own place ...
Jane: ... the famous Mayfair flat ...
Ashley: ... and sort out my stuff, because the bailiffs were going to be in any minute - you understand, I was made a scapegoat by the Bank; none of this was my fault in any way - and this Dennis said I could crash in his spare room for as long as I needed to. So I did. I had nowhere else to go. He still had a job to go to, so I was on my own all day scouring the Times Appointments and finding nothing, and killed time tidying up, cooking a bit, wandering down the shops - you know the sort of thing. Next thing I know, here’s Dennis in the hall thrusting a huge bunch of smelly red roses against my cleavage and kissing me with more passion than I ever imagined such an ordinary bloke could feel ... and asking me to marry him!
Jane: And you did.
Ashley: I don’t know to this day what got into me. At that moment I couldn’t see any other future. I had fallen. I had reached rock-bottom. Stupidly, stupidly, stupidly I said Yes.
Jane: Did he not make you happy?
Ashley: Of course not. How could he? Oh he was happy! He was like a dog with two tails! Even in the Registry Office, with a couple of people pulled off the street to be witnesses. How could any woman be happy stuck in a down-market 1930s semi with floral wallpaper, no bidet, and nothing that matched?
Jane: I suppose some would find their creative side?
Ashley: Well - I did get some designers in. Dennis had to do months of overtime to pay for the makeover, but I felt a bit more at home. And saw less of him. But Jane, I did try! For a year! I have always prided myself on doing any job exceptionally well, and I decided to do this sexist marriage thing as well as possible. It’s just ... that it went against everything I believe in. I came to a point when I had to tell Dennis the truth. If he loved me he had to let me go. And I needed my half of the house. He would have to find a flat somewhere, but I would have enough to start my new career in Life Coaching.
Jane: How did he react to that?
Ashley: Badly, I’m afraid. But he had to go. And as you know, Life Coaching took off and led rapidly to the foundation of Claw-Back, which has been the most rewarding project of my entire life.
Jane: How many women are you helping now?
Ashley: Oh thousands! ... through my website, YouTube, my wonderful best-seller (in all the bookshops now, as well as Amazon), and my Facebook page ... I anticipate millions over the next few years, Jane; and the Unit is always full. Women are eager to learn how to take control, how to achieve, how to soar to the heights and avoid the catastrophic fall that nearly ruined me. I’m teaching them independence, self-esteem, ambition, high material standards, emotional discipline, the full range of physical pleasure, and the courage to refuse compromise. No woman who comes to Claw-Back will ever again be the weak puppet of a an even weaker male. And I certainly won’t.
Jane: What did happen to Dennis? Are you still Mrs. .... ?
Ashley: Dennis. That’s his last name. I always had difficulty remembering his first name ... Hubert? Herbert? No I am not, never have been and will never be Mrs. Anybody! I had him arrested for stalking last month. Some people simply don’t know when to let go.
Jane: Dr. Ashley Pussett, there are no words. Thank you. Tomorrow we look forward to the return of Kirsty Allsopp.
Jane: It’s a pleasure and an honour to have with us this morning the women’s champion Ashley Pussett, who last week received an honorary Doctorate from the University of Luton in recognition of her work rescuing and rehabilitating women of all ages and from all backgrounds whose lives have gone into freefall. Welcome, Ashley!
Ashley: Thank you, Jane. It’s an honour to be here.
Jane: Ashley, the recent film of your life has gone viral on YouTube; how do you cope with all the attention?
Ashley: Oh it’s wonderful! Such great publicity for my rehab unit! Women’s lives are going to be transformed.
Jane: Like yours?
Ashley: Like mine, Jane.
Jane: Ashley, tell us your story, for those listeners who may not yet have seen the video or read your book ‘Subordinate Claws.’ Interesting title, by the way.
Ashley: Thank you! I thought so too. Well ... as everybody knows, I was born into a hard-working, entrepreneurial family, got my A grades, took my Gap Year touring the Middle East and got some great work experience in Dubai before going to Uni in the early noughties....
Jane: Dubai! How wonderful! Rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous?
Ashley: Oh yes. That’s where I really learned my values. So when I got back I took degree courses in Business Management, Finance, Economics and Marketing.
Jane: That sounds expensive.
Ashley: Money wasn’t a problem. My parents coughed up for everything, even though it meant sacrifices. They have always been so supportive. It meant that not only could I get the qualis I needed but never had to compromise my standards.
Jane: You always dress beautifully.
Ashley: I know. Many of my clothes are gifts from the top designers. It’s great PR for them.
Jane: So you got to Uni, graduated ... then what happened?
Ashley: It was hard, hard work; but at Uni I learned how to relax. I was there with women from every corner of Europe, from Asia, the US, all over the globe, all of us working our butts off to make sure we got everywhere - and everything - we wanted. It wasn’t going to be a man’s world any more! No way! We could down a pint like the best of them. We could party all night, get as high as kites, and still be completely focussed the next day. Emotional ties, as you can imagine, were a big no-no! In Dubai I had several very influential lovers - still useful contacts I may add - but at Uni I found I could have anyone I wanted, male or female, without strings. We are all entitled to pleasure, Jane. Women of today deserve to have their needs met and their status respected. As a high-profile and hard-working broadcaster I’m sure you agree.
Jane: How did you manage so many relationships? Were there no jealousies?
Ashley: Oh - maybe. Not my responsibility. People get over them. Well - I organised my week. Monday I’d see Jake, Tuesday Mandy, Wednesday John, maybe, Thursday Sebastian, Friday Chris, Saturday the twins, and Sunday I might have a rest or go round to another of the girls for a group session.
Jane: What happened when you moved into Banking?
Ashley: Of course I had to drop all my Uni people; you do, when you move on. Like any woman I needed to make all the new and useful contacts I could in the sector. I needed more than ever to keep that essential work-life balance. And of course it meant I was promoted very quickly. I was also extremely good at my job. Daytime was the Boardroom, Donna Karan suits, endless negotiations, huge financial dealings, and trouble-shooting occasional crises; evenings doing the rounds of the very best London Clubs before relaxing with a hot, fit celeb. A few hours sleep and I was ready to glam up for another working day.
Jane: This is the vision you have for all women.
Ashley: That is the life every woman should aspire to - and attain.
Jane: But in 2008 ... ?
Ashley: In 2008 we had the Crash. Far too many people were unjustly blamed for the global banking crisis. And fingers pointed at me! I couldn’t believe it. So many people deserted me. I felt so alone.
Jane: How did you cope?
Ashley: Badly. I made the worst mistake of my entire life. As you know, I was asked to leave both the Boardroom and the Bank. There was just one man who stood by me, a chap from Customer Services called Dennis. He caught me at a very weak moment, offered me a handkerchief, and took me for egg and chips at a greasy spoon a few streets from Head Office.
Jane: That was very kind.
Ashley: I think he’d always fancied me. From afar. Well - he took me home to his semi in Dagenham and made me cocoa ... cocoa!!! ... and lent me pyjamas and tucked me up in his spare room ... and never laid a finger on me.
Jane: A real gentleman!
Ashley: I guess. Anyhow, I had to go back to my own place ...
Jane: ... the famous Mayfair flat ...
Ashley: ... and sort out my stuff, because the bailiffs were going to be in any minute - you understand, I was made a scapegoat by the Bank; none of this was my fault in any way - and this Dennis said I could crash in his spare room for as long as I needed to. So I did. I had nowhere else to go. He still had a job to go to, so I was on my own all day scouring the Times Appointments and finding nothing, and killed time tidying up, cooking a bit, wandering down the shops - you know the sort of thing. Next thing I know, here’s Dennis in the hall thrusting a huge bunch of smelly red roses against my cleavage and kissing me with more passion than I ever imagined such an ordinary bloke could feel ... and asking me to marry him!
Jane: And you did.
Ashley: I don’t know to this day what got into me. At that moment I couldn’t see any other future. I had fallen. I had reached rock-bottom. Stupidly, stupidly, stupidly I said Yes.
Jane: Did he not make you happy?
Ashley: Of course not. How could he? Oh he was happy! He was like a dog with two tails! Even in the Registry Office, with a couple of people pulled off the street to be witnesses. How could any woman be happy stuck in a down-market 1930s semi with floral wallpaper, no bidet, and nothing that matched?
Jane: I suppose some would find their creative side?
Ashley: Well - I did get some designers in. Dennis had to do months of overtime to pay for the makeover, but I felt a bit more at home. And saw less of him. But Jane, I did try! For a year! I have always prided myself on doing any job exceptionally well, and I decided to do this sexist marriage thing as well as possible. It’s just ... that it went against everything I believe in. I came to a point when I had to tell Dennis the truth. If he loved me he had to let me go. And I needed my half of the house. He would have to find a flat somewhere, but I would have enough to start my new career in Life Coaching.
Jane: How did he react to that?
Ashley: Badly, I’m afraid. But he had to go. And as you know, Life Coaching took off and led rapidly to the foundation of Claw-Back, which has been the most rewarding project of my entire life.
Jane: How many women are you helping now?
Ashley: Oh thousands! ... through my website, YouTube, my wonderful best-seller (in all the bookshops now, as well as Amazon), and my Facebook page ... I anticipate millions over the next few years, Jane; and the Unit is always full. Women are eager to learn how to take control, how to achieve, how to soar to the heights and avoid the catastrophic fall that nearly ruined me. I’m teaching them independence, self-esteem, ambition, high material standards, emotional discipline, the full range of physical pleasure, and the courage to refuse compromise. No woman who comes to Claw-Back will ever again be the weak puppet of a an even weaker male. And I certainly won’t.
Jane: What did happen to Dennis? Are you still Mrs. .... ?
Ashley: Dennis. That’s his last name. I always had difficulty remembering his first name ... Hubert? Herbert? No I am not, never have been and will never be Mrs. Anybody! I had him arrested for stalking last month. Some people simply don’t know when to let go.
Jane: Dr. Ashley Pussett, there are no words. Thank you. Tomorrow we look forward to the return of Kirsty Allsopp.